Week

I trust everyome's week is going well?

I actually got a jump on the readings in spite of my worldly needs and desires. Praise God. I found reading L and M to be very interesting and helpful in tying down some theological issues in my mind.

Looking forward to another awesome Thursday, athough I am bringing my pillow this week! :-)

Mike V.

On Biblical Manhood and Womanhood

Hello everyone -- Seeing as we are discussing the role of men and women in the church and in the home, I wanted to point you to these audio lectures by John Piper which I listened to a few years ago and was deeply moved by them. The written notes are also available if you only have time to glance it over:

http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/Seminars/1726_Sexual_Complementarity_Part_1/#Notes

If nothing else, try to find in the transcript (about halfway down the page) the 9 nine reasons he gives for the call of leadership to men before the Fall.

Vickie abandoned us!!!

Chris

It looks like Vickie is shunning us. :-) Just kidding Vickie.

The reading is going well although slowly. Still have to finish D, and complete E and F. Also have to write this week's paper.

I definitely need to reduce some of my outside activities!

Mike

Kudoos for BILD

The boys down in Ames, Iowa, would get a kick out of this: Al Mohler, President of Southern Baptist Seminary (one of the top evangelical seminaries in the world), thinks that seminaries should go out of business, and that churches themselves should be training up the next generation of pastors. See the link below:

http://adrianwarnock.com/2008/05/john-piper-to-start-seminary-at.htm

Great Quote

Hello everyone -- I thought this was a quote worth passing along....I just read this on a blog called "NeverThirsty":

In a magazine article many years ago Mike Yaconelli wrote about the type of pastor churches want. His comments are true in many churches:

"We don't want ministers anymore; we want CEOs. We don't want prophets, we want politicians. We don't want godliness, we want experience. We don't want spirituality, we want efficiency. We don't want humility, we want charisma. We don't want godly authority, we want relational skills. As a result, we have thousands and thousands of churches in this country whose ministers are very qualified to do what the church has asked of them, but the one thing that hasn't been asked of them is to love Jesus."

I was thinking

When I was doing some critical thinking, in light of Kevin's and our discussion last night, does it seem logical for a church to establish, grow, and encourage a church plant - to have their church maximizing their efforts in assuring that their body is growing properly. If so I would think we would do an indepth assessment at Calvary to see where we are as a church body and developing whatever methods necessary to ensure our church is practicing whatever implementation we would be instilling in a new church plant?

What are your thoughts on this?

Hello brothers & Sister

I don't know about you'all but this next assignments really excites me. And at my age excitement is not a frequent event.

Kevin, don't forget to email us those awesome papers you shared last night.

Mike

Just a note

Hope everyone is doing well. Just figured out how to make a new posts instead of replying to previous ones. Hopefully, you saw my post from Sunday.

Issue 1 SDQ #2

Hello all, I am finally signed up and part of the group. Enjoying all the points and topics so far. I agree with most everything I am reading so far too. I believe some of what I'm hearing is :

1) Numbers make a church.
2) Gospel preached in church then and now is important.
3) Missions and conversions is a measure.

In this age of the mega-church as the gold standard, I believe there are some (although not likely the norm) see church multiplication and planting as maturity and growth. It seems to be the vision that the cup so runneth over that it spills out new churches. I think that is what the group from Seattle that we are hearing about at Calvary (Dr. Jan Hettinga's? churches) sees as the standard.

It seems that so few churches are devote to growing believers in their faith, through discipleship, accountability, and strength through a growing relationship with Christ. It becomes more about when is the next program or when is the Church holiday is coming. I do believe that churches need to focus on bringing new believers to faith and growing believers in their faith to be a healthy, mature and growing churches. When these are happening church planting is a nature step as it was in the first century church

Unit 1 Issue 1 SDQ #2

Hello Everyone -- instead of writing comments two times.....once for Vicki's post and once for Wayne's note, I figured I would just respond to both with a new post. Vicki -- by now you should also be ready to start receiving e-mail notification of this new post (please let me know if it works).

In response to what Vicki and Wayne said, I completely agree (how about that!) It seems like more people is one of the very few gauges I hear being used to measure the strength of a church or the success of the pastor's ministry. To be sure, numbers could mean a fruitful ministry, but that is not always the case.

What other gauges could we use? A short brainstorming session gave me these ideas: 1) The percentage of missionaries to total church population--for example, 0% vs. a church with 5% or 10% would be very telling. I believe it was the Moravians who sent out 90% of their membership into missions (see www.moravian.org/history).
2) The percentage of dollars going towards missions and/or local outreach
3) The percentage of the number of people being saved and becoming committed members

I am sure there are lots of great indicators that I am not thinking of right now....does anyone have any other ideas they could add?

Unit 1 Issue 1 SDQ #2

Good Morning All,

I believe the first question we were to consider is "What does today's evangelical culture consider a strong church?" The first thought that came into my mind was programming. I believe that most churches think that if they can just run the right programs the right way that the body will be strong. And I believe that the scorecard for success in these programs most of the time is the number of bodies participating and giving.

How does this differ from Paul's understanding of a mature church? Maybe a lot, maybe not much.... In the multiple passages of scripture that we read for this Issue I see the following list of characteristics of a strong church: preaching the gospel, strengthening the disciples, encourage to remain true to the faith, appointed elders, grew daily in numbers, imparting of spiritual gifts, not unsettled by trials, love increase for each other, strengthen in every good deed and word.

The main difference that I see here is the nature of the heart impact in many of the terms that are used in Acts and Paul's epistles. Paul is encouraging heart change and maturity amongst the body. Though from the outside a well programmed, but shallow church may not look that much different from what Paul would consider a strong church. A true evaluation would need to have an intimate relationship with that body to gauge the the heart health of the body. But obviously there would be a lot more depth to the programming in a Pauline strong church.

Boys, where are you?

Boys, I left on Friday and was sure you would have had a hot debate by now. Chris had a retreat, but the rest of you? Where are you??

This evening in church Todd read from the EFC district newsletter (or something like that). The head of the MN District wrote it (right Kevin?). Anyway, he said the same things I did in my previous post, but added building and staff to numbers and programs. I actually had building in my original notes, but didn't add it in my post as I was in a hurry.

Okay, I'm passing the torch, jump in.

Unit 1 Issue 1 SDQ #2

Okay, guys, I'll get the ball rolling. I pull out of Roch. in 30 minutes and I expect to see many great discussions when I get home! :)

The question was: What does today's evangelical culture consider a strong church? (Follow up to ... what was the nature of the qualities Paul used to evaluate the maturity and strength of a church?)

My thoughts ... sadly, I think most evangelical churches today put much weight on numbers. Number of attenders who "give" and number of programs.

Paul was passionate about preserving the fruit, establishing believers in the gospel and assuring understanding of the message and its implications.

Paul also looked for transformed lives. I think we fall short in this area.

I also think many (dare I say most) evang. churches jump from program to program, always seeking the new and improved package that will draw people ... givers. I don't mean to make it sound like it's all about money. We are all commanded to tithe and use our talents and time for the Church. However, I think most churches (oops, I said 'most') want the people and the pocket change more than they want to disciple, train leaders, and multiply churches.

Ah, not a cynic ... just an observation. I'd say more ( you know I would!), but I have to fly.

Next?

Need help

I cannot find the reference made to "Sterizo". Can any one direct me to where it is or translate for me?

Thanks

This is just a test to see if this works.  

Yours,

Kevin 

Hi Gang

Hope your week is going well. The studies have been intense, which is what I was looking for, I just have to make sure I do not over-analyze.